[0:00] Today, I'm speaking to Janine Coombs. She's a marketing coach with over 20 years industry experience. She's going to be giving us some fantastic tips today about how to create a sizzling hot offer, how to price it, and how to approach niching in a completely different way. You're listening to the Life Friendly Business podcast, where we lift the lid on the reality of running a business around family life and shine a light on the mindset gremlins which may well be stopping you from stepping into your zone of genius. I'm Erin, the Life-Friendly Business Mentor, and I'm here to empower you to succeed through personalized support, strategic business training, and ongoing mentorship. Let's work together to champion your goals and ignite your potential so that you can create your very own life-friendly business.
[1:01] Hi Janine, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Oh, it's my pleasure. Thanks for having me. So tell us, why did you start your own business in the first place? I had a career in marketing and I fully intended to go back to work after having my first child. But as it went on, the maternity leave that is, less and less wanted to do the hour commute, two hour round trip. In fact, it was more like two and a half hours. And just, yeah, I think I, I mean, we all do this, but I fell in love with my child and I was just like, you know what? I prefer to spend all my time with him. And luckily for me, I was able to hand him a notice to look after him. And then I started thinking about what I could do instead of going back to corporate because I really didn't want to go back to corporate. And I kind of had lost the passion for marketing. So I was looking at all sorts of wild and wacky ideas. But then gradually, one by one, some of my friends started setting up businesses and things that were obvious to me, they were getting wrong and they were going about it the wrong way or they had the wrong approach. And I just thought, I can't keep my nose out. I just cannot keep my nose out. I need to help small businesses with marketing.
[2:22] I think that's a great example as well of how things just kind of opportunities present themselves. So you were consciously looking to do something different, but then you kind of realised there was this gap here that other people didn't have the knowledge that you had. Yeah, yeah. I wouldn't say snowballed, but I mean, that makes it sound like there was like velocity behind it. A very, very slowly pushed snowball happened. Happened so and how long ago was this oh gosh it was it must have been 13 years ago when I left corporate and how has your business evolved since then it was a very slow evolution to begin with I mean I was doing everything I would do a brand workshop for a bathroom showroom and then a month Months later, I'd do a training course for like 100 translators. I had helped somebody else with their Facebook account. And it was all over the place. And I feel like I could not have shortcut that process.
[3:30] I can't imagine a single person who could have intervened and helped me speed up that process. Not a marketing expert, not a coach, not a therapist. I needed to go through that. I needed to test and try different things on. So that process did take quite a while. And then eventually, it got to the point where I think I'd absorbed so much shoulds and must-haves. I had all the pressure of, oh my God, I'm a marketer. Everybody's going to expect me to be on every single social media platform. They're going to expect me to know everything. They're going to expect me to know about PR and advertising and everything. thing. And eventually I realized that all this activity that I was doing, you know, create, trying to create content, not, and at the same time, not knowing who it was for or what I was selling. I realized that actually I had to put some offers together, So that was, for me, that was a missing piece of the jigsaw. It was like, I have not got clear offers. I am not offering anything to anyone, which sounds so stupid. But at the time, I didn't see it. And ironically, the last role I held in corporate was propositions manager. I was putting together offers.
[4:44] But you know, I love this because I think it's really important to share this because so many of the women that I work with, like you say, it's been a slow evolution, especially if you're raising kids at the same time. And, you know, you said that no one could have shortcut that for you. And I totally relate to that because this is my fifth business. You know, it's my fifth business. And I think so many people that I speak to now, especially with all the noise on social and everything, they think that if they're starting a business, they should have everything nailed within the first six months. And, you know, even the first year. And actually, the reality is, is that, like you say, it is a process that you go through when you start running a business. And so many people as well, it happens, what's the word, not organically, but like, they find themselves doing the thing that they're doing. And so they haven't really set it up as a business from the beginning. And it's only when they get going that they think oh hang on a minute I'm not really clear about what I'm actually selling here.
[5:48] Yeah in fact funny you should say that it didn't take me a year or two to realize I had set up a business even though I had registered my business it was like oh oh I'm a business I'm managing my I'm running a business I should probably approach it like that and set up some systems and set up and processes. It was a slow dawning realization.
[6:14] Yeah. And I think it is for many of the people in my community as well. So what does your business look like today?
[6:22] My business now is I help coaches mainly, coach-shaped people, I say, because I also help coaches and mentors. They don't always fit that title of coach. And I help them earn more. and it's through the offer positioning and the pricing and then once that is clear who you're targeting, the marketing and everything becomes easier. I help people mainly with very high touch, high support services. So I've got a one-to-one program and I've got a hybrid group program but it has one-to-one in it. I just really...
[6:57] I just can't keep my nose out. That seems to be the theme of, I just can't keep my nose out. Like I did launch a course, an online course a few years ago, and it just drove me mad because people come to the end of it and I can see that they needed more help, but I hadn't offered the extra help. So I know it helps, it works for some companies, but for me.
[7:21] I just want to get stuck in there and really get to grips with it. Maybe I'm a perfectionist. I don't think of myself as a perfectionist, but it feels like I want to help more. But I think it's so, so much more satisfying when you actually have that connection one to one and find out what's happening with them. Because, you know, like we're all told about the like reach the millions, make an impact on the millions. And so you think, well, I'm going to do an online course and I'm going to do the things or a membership. But actually when you're not having that those conversations one-on-one whether it's through emails or texts or or actual like sessions you know you don't get to hear like them goes you don't get to see them go through the process and come out the other side whereas when you have that closer connection to your clients i just find it so much more satisfying to see that end result, and it kind of helps you doesn't it with your with your content with inspiration and with the evolution of your services. And it is a loop. It's a feedback loop. Whereas I don't know how people do it if they're purely selling DIY services. I suppose they have to do more research maybe.
[8:30] Yeah. And so what would you say are the biggest mistakes that people are making with their offers?
[8:37] It's tricky to know when you've nailed your offer or not. I mean, it's easy to find out when you haven't because you're not selling. You're finding it difficult to sell. you're finding it difficult to think of what content to create for your businesses those are a couple of the symptoms but sometimes people have gone through multitudes of ideal customer avatar exercises maybe even some research and then often when i talk to them they're like oh i've done i've nailed my messaging like i know who i'm targeting you're like have you now, and then we dig into it and they haven't or they haven't gone sharp enough they're just not clear enough on exactly who they're targeting with what and.
[9:22] It is unhelpful sometimes to be too niche with your overarching business and then unclear with each of your offers and who they're targeting, which is why I tend to do it the other way around, which has worked for me. But also I found a lot of people a lot of my clients really like that flip instead of thinking of the niche for your whole business or the target market for your whole business look at your offers is it clear who they are for and what they're going to get out of it is the value clear for each one of your offers that is often a more practical useful way to approach the targeting of what you're doing, the positioning of what you're doing. That's really interesting because I know, especially with coaches, when they come to me, one of the things they can often be really stuck in is, I need to work out my niche. And it's literally paralyzing them.
[10:21] And because with coaches, I guess you can technically help anyone because it's about asking them the right questions to find their own answers and so you know they could be helping people in all sorts of things so okay explain again then how you approach niching so I call it my reverse niching technique, because essentially what you're doing is you're looking at the offers you're doing it bottom up you're doing it in the reverse order instead of saying okay I've got a coaching practice what is my niche who should I be targeting it's like oh okay what who am I currently attracting on my offers? Who do I enjoy working with on my offers?
[11:02] Who's buying already who I love working with you know what are their problems that I'm solving on on each of one of my services if it's just like one main service then just look at the people who you've been working with most who are the easiest people to sell to who appreciate your work the most who's most enjoyable to work with like on a satisfaction job satisfaction basis there will be themes in there and then the niche will well you know I don't even like using the word niche because it's so interchangeable but like your target market will reveal itself and then if you have several offers that are targeting slightly different markets or slightly different groups of people or slightly different problems or slightly different ways that you're solving their problems then you can look at those and then go oh okay the overarching theme here is is this. I tend to work with these kinds of people at this stage of their journey. And that can be your niche.
[12:03] It's kind of like an evolution. It's a slow unveiling of your niche. It's what I've done. I mean, the reason I'm so passionate about it is because that's what's happened to me. I wanted to niche. It's like, oh, I know I should really be sharper with my niche, niche but I felt that it was like a pressure an external pressure that I didn't really need it was like I just knew I needed to experiment and it took me ages to go okay so I don't enjoy those people as much I don't get so good results with those types of people and eventually my niche if we want to call it that revealed itself I it's it was a much better way to do it for me.
[12:47] So one question which I feel would come up with this is people panicking then about if I've got different offers aimed at different people, how do I then put out a consistent message on social, for example, like if they're talking to different people? So how would you advise that they did that?
[13:09] So what you rarely find is that the different audiences for the different offers as a completely different people like the most common example of that would be like i've worked with a few leadership coaches who coach individuals but they'll also offer like training programs, maybe even team team build team dynamic processes and things like that so they've got individuals they're targeting but then corporates they're targeting so the way the easiest way to do that it's not a must-have but it would be to have one channel serving the corporate market and one one-channel serving the individual market. That's an easy way to do it. But you can mix it up.
[13:49] Humans are reasonably sheep-like, and they will only sort of pay attention to what is appropriate to them. So you could have a LinkedIn post. LinkedIn is my main channel. A LinkedIn post one day targeting corporates, and then the next day a LinkedIn post targeting individuals. And the individuals will just ignore the corporate ones. They start reading, oh, that's obviously not for me, and they just move on. It's quite freaky how that happens. There was an example when I worked in corporate. I was working for National Venture Car Company.
[14:21] They've rebranded to Europe Car since then. And we had two brands. We had a brand for corporate and we had a brand for the holiday makers. The holiday makers was Alamo and it was this sky blue color. And the national brand was green, like a forest green. And we tried a dual branded kiosk like at the airport, you know, when you go to get your rent a car.
[14:46] We tried a dual branded one and we had the two colors and the two logos next to each other and then we surveyed people you know was it confusing did you did the other sign put you off and the resounding answer from i think it was a hundred percent of respondents was i didn't even notice the other sign i was only looking for the alamo sign i was only looking for the national sign like people were just looking for what's interesting to us they're only looking they're only going to respond and notice the messages that that hit them and they're like oh i resonate with that they'll only notice that one so to an extent you don't have to worry as much as people do about, mixed messages as long as it's not mixed messages in the same post yes because I and I agree I guess it's that whole thing about people being able to self-identify when they're scrolling so then it's about in that message how you're talking to their problems or you know their challenges and they will see that and and then take interest in it but if it's not relevant to them they're just going to scroll on by and that's okay so that's that's really good to hear um what other tips would you give people for niching.
[15:57] Don't force it is the absolute number one. There's so much out there telling people to niche and the riches are in the niches and you must, must, must niche and it's the answer to your wildest dreams. I just don't think you can force it. I think that's the main piece of advice I'd give. I know we've touched on this before, but the second step is just be clear on your offers. Who is each one of those offers for? I'd argue that's more important than nailing your niche. Because you can then just focus on that one offer and perfect it and get the ball rolling and create good content around it and ask questions around it. And then, you know, marketing is all about testing and trialing and being open to experimentation, isn't it? You're not going to nail it first time. And that's why I think it's easier to toy with offers than it is with your whole niche.
[16:51] And just to touch back on what you were saying before about when you're thinking about who who you're currently working with and who you enjoy working with. And this is something we were talking about in my mastermind, actually, because when you are designing your offers and thinking about that, like that is the point of running your own business is that you get to choose who you have in your world and who you want to attract. So I think, you know, there are still a lot of people who feel like they're not in control of that. It's like, well, I should be working with that person. I should be targeting that kind of person. But do you actually want to? are those the people that you find most satisfying and I I love it when you said who are the people that appreciate you the most and the help that you can give um yeah I really like that I've worked with some people um, And, uh, they're slightly earlier. I mean, my heartland isn't people who are completely new to social media, but some, some of my clients have worked with it. And I think everything I say is utter genius and the first person to ever utter it. And it's so satisfying because it's like, this is not new stuff, guys. This is not, you know, I didn't invent the lead magnet.
[17:59] Wow. And this is the thing. Yeah. You only need to be two steps ahead of the person behind you don't you in order to help them and and so many people get caught in the like oh god I don't want to position myself as an expert but it's like yes but you can you can offer so much value to that person who's never heard of a lead magnet you know and and it's easy for us to be so um like uh immersed in our own echo chamber that we that we think everyone knows what we know but they don't no and it is interesting because once in a while I mean I've got quite a I'm quite well well-networked. There are certain groups where I practically know everyone and conferences I go to and it feels like going into a big family reunion. I know everybody and it feels really good. And then once in a while, I step out of that and I meet people who aren't in that bubble of online marketing. I was on a podcast actually with a friend, but she obviously didn't know very much about what I did, like the nitty gritty. We were talking about offers and she thought I I meant like bog-off offers, like offers in a supermarket, like two for one. And I was like, oh no, we're at completely cross-purposes here. And I suppose the point I'm making with that is be aware when you're getting feedback from people who are not your ideal client and would never in a million years be your ideal client because what they say shouldn't influence what you do.
[19:28] Yes. Yes. Yes, I had a really, really good. I think it was Laura Robinson from Worditude. She said, don't create your freebies on what your customers would like, because actually these are the people before they've become a customer. So it's like taking it back that one. And I thought, oh, my goodness, that's so that's really, really helpful because it's easy for us to think about, oh, you know, have our customers in our mind. but it's not them. They've already come along the journey. It's the people before them that we want to be reaching with our freebies. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that whole thinking about the buyer decision-making journey is really helpful. It doesn't have to be complicated. It's just, okay, at some point, they're not even aware of their problem. They're not even aware that they have a problem. And I think where a lot of people go wrong is they're creating content. They're trying to convince people who don't even have a problem. They don't even know they have a problem yet. You're wasting your breath. You've got to wait for them to... It's horrible because you can see you can help them. You've got to wait for them to reach that realization themselves. So when they start thinking, oh, hang on a minute, maybe I do have a problem around here. Maybe I do need to look for a solution. And then you can sort of pick them up and take them more towards helping them make a decision.
[20:55] It is hard if you have the type of service. I've had a couple of these types of clients. They have the type of like a cutting edge service that isn't normal. It's like an unusual new type of service. Imagine coaching when it first started becoming popular or known about like now every well everyone in my communities they know what coaching is but a couple of decades ago that nobody would have wanted to spend money on coaching in this country in the UK and that's the thing like you say when they don't even realize that they've got a problem they're not going to be parting with money because they don't know they've got a problem so they don't know they need a solution and I totally agree that's where some people are really really stuck and just not understanding why people aren't buying but yeah it's great so one thing I want to come on because by the way I love your website um it's really clear and lovely so if anyone wants to have a look at that as a great example um you talk about sizzling hot offer creation so can you give us a few tips on how to make your offer sizzling hot, So I've got three P's of my sizzling hot offer creation process.
[22:01] Marketers do love a P. P's everywhere. So my three P's are the promise, the package, and the price. The promise is what would you love to be able to promise somebody if they were their ideal client and they did all the work and everything went smoothly? What would you love to be able to promise? What is that tangible thing? If you can make it as tangible as possible, bearing in mind often it's it's hard to make the intangible tangible but um what would they really really like but that can become the core of your messaging and then you can have supporting messages that go underneath that i recommend three because the rule of three it's always a nice it's always a nice number um the package is actually what they are buying um like what what are they actually getting from you how does it work and that process has to seem logical it has to make sense it has to sound valuable so this is an opportunity for you to brand that process.
[22:58] So it could either be step by step or it could be pillars so a lot of coaches they they're not actually it's not actually a step-by-step process it's more okay these these are my core values or these are my core techniques that i take people through but whatever it is you will have your own unique way of doing it of approaching it your own tools that you've sort of adapted to your way of working like can you make that into some kind of model or framework or blueprint or i mean this is where we get into the realms i see people pushing back on this and going it's just it's making up words we're just making up acronyms it's like yeah but it really makes it more tangible for the buyer they they understand it better they understand the benefit more it seems more valuable you know anything that's going to help them make a decision and understand the value if you don't do this.
[23:51] You're doing yourself a disservice because competitors will be doing this and they will have their own proprietary processes and they will have branded it and it you know they will write a book at some point and you know if you're happy with that then that's that's what's going to happen and the pricing is i just love talking about pricing because Because I think people get their knickers in a twist about pricing. And it's more important and less important than people think. It's more important because if you don't charge enough, you're not going to be able to create a business for yourself. I think some people get into the situation where they think, oh gosh, I want to help good people. And some good people don't have money. So I should help people with no money. And it's like, well, that is a charity. that is not a business um it sounds horrible but you that's that's rule number one of setting up a business is to sell to people who've actually got the money to pay you and the beautiful thing about running an online business nowadays is you can get the money rolling and then you can create content to help people you can write a book you can do a free course you could even offer some free places you can offer scholarships or discounted places but you can only do that once you've got the wheels turning and the ball rolling in your own business.
[25:19] And on the point about pricing is less important than you think, I think it's so easy to do this. I think we all do this on some extent. We think, gosh, you know, okay, Haven't made so many sales of that as I thought I would, perhaps if I dropped the price. But seriously, if you had something that was £3,000 and you dropped the price to £2,500, would that really make any difference? No, that's a huge price drop. But people who wouldn't buy at £3,000, there's a different reason other than price why they're not buying at £2,500. And the same goes for an online course if it was 50 quid and you decided to sell it for 25 like would you really sell any more if they're not buying it's because they don't think it's valuable they don't see the value for it they don't realize it's for them or they don't believe you're the right person to you know there's something else going on so is there a magic formula for how you can price your offer oh my god i'm gonna create that i mean it's not at the moment but now by the end of the day there will be that's what people ask me all the time.
[26:28] So i'm interested to hear what you would say um the nearest thing to a formula i can think of which is useful is think about um how much you'd really really want to price your thing for like but it would make you feel a bit sick if you actually said it out loud like what is that price and then think of a wimp out figure that you know that you're doing yourself a complete injustice and then go somewhere in between. I love that. I love that. That is brilliant. A wimp out figure. Um, so because I think that there is a feeling that there should be a guide to, well, if I'm offering a six session package with this, then the formula means that I charge this much, but there's really not, is there? No, I think you've just got to feel that it's a good deal for them. If you get the sale, you've got to be kicking your heels in delight. That's the formula. If you make the sale and you're like, oh God, I've undersold myself again, then you haven't charged enough.
[27:36] Or if you feel like the person is really, really stretched and you feel like they haven't got a good deal, then you've charged too much. It is so much about emotions. And you could be selling exactly the same thing today. And then in six months' time, the price you charge today could feel like a ridiculously small amount. Like, what was I thinking? It's worth so much more. And nothing's changed apart from your mindset about your value.
[28:04] So the better the better work to do is probably get clear on the value that you are providing like get fully clear review the testimonials do some journaling um remind yourself of all the experience and the training that you've done to get here you know the stuff that makes you unique that somebody else your your competitors that you compare yourself to that they couldn't come up with well the amount of times I've looked up to somebody and thought oh my gosh I could never I could never be as successful as them and they're charging so much more than me and then um you know I actually I hear clients come to me who work with them I'm like what what did they do what did what did they not do what am I what am I worried about I'm doing so much better job I'm not owning it like they are. And it is that I love the quote about don't compare your backstage with someone else's front stage. Yeah, definitely. We could talk about this for so long, but we're coming towards the end. And what we haven't really talked about is the kind of life friendly approach, because I know that you said that you've, you know, you've had to set your business up in a life friendly way. So I don't know whether you want to share anything about that or give any Any tips on how you can run a successful business, but still have that time, you know, raising your kids with your family, all those kind of things?
[29:29] Yes. Life friendly is such a good phrase. It's that's what I wanted from my business when I was setting it up. And I've got two kids, one just started secondary and one in primary still. And I want to be there. I want to drop them off. I want to pick them up. I mean, that is part of my picture of success is being there for them, being able to help them with their homework. And not being stressed, not being a ball of anxiety for them to absorb. I think what has helped my own business is.
[30:02] Boundaries setting your own boundaries like I laugh at myself when I first set up my business I took on this client who was wonderful but he was like um he was like okay so when should we have our sessions and I said oh well where do you tell me when do you want them and he was like oh 8 a.m on a Wednesday and I was like yeah sure so 8 a.m I mean I'm barely out of bed at that time I had kids tried to feed and get their clothes on I had to ask my husband to deal with those school all run so I could slap on some makeup and hair off into his office because I didn't have an office at the time so I had to use his office for an hour it was ridiculous putting my whole life out of sync now the client didn't ask me to do that that was my fault if I said I only work 9 30 to 2 30 it'll gone okie dokie we'll do it at 9 30 then like this was not a nasty person this was like a really lovely guy um so that has you know from then on it was like oh hello you set the times if the clients can't work with you during those times I'm sorry but it's just a no-go and the other thing that I've managed to crack which took a while I wanted to to focus on my business and my marketing and that kind of thing on a Monday and a Friday I wanted to do only client work and sales calls and things Tuesday Wednesday Thursday it took me such a long time to honor that, somehow other things would creep in but now I've I've cracked it and they are sacred and it has made such a difference.
[31:30] That is brilliant. And that's everything that I talk about as well, you know, how important those boundaries are. And I think, you know, I talk a lot about taking CEO time and I do that on a Monday morning. And it's about not being so reactive that you're immediately going into your inbox and firefighting. It's about taking that time to be proactive. active. And I know that thing I have to remind myself, like I am not going to impinge on that time because I know how much it sets me up for the rest of the week. And so it's like reminding ourselves of why we've chosen to do things the way that we have.
[32:06] Because otherwise, yeah, it's so easy to bend over backwards for other people and think, oh, but I really need that money coming in. So I'll say yes to the client. I don't dare negotiate with them because what if they say, well that's no good I need 8am you know yeah yeah yeah no I saw one of your posts with the CEO morning with a cup of coffee I was like oh I'm doing my CEO time wrong I want to go to a nice cafe and have a nice coffee well I'm doing that yeah no I mean it is it's like it's a gift to myself you know I love it I and it is like for me it's changing that environment it's getting away from the dishwasher and thinking oh god I should put the washing on it's like completely removing moving myself and then I know when I get home and sit down at my desk I'm in a different headspace so yeah that's thank you so much so many useful tips in there I feel like there's lots more that we could be talking about um I know that you're going to do a session for the cocoon membership as well which is amazing sharing your tips where can people find out about you um if you want to connect with me linkedin is my home janine coombs come and find me and connect with me um also So I've got a, we talked a lot about pricing today, and I've got a charge more guide if people want to, if they've been putting off charging more. And the URL is janinecoombs.co.uk forward slash charge dash more dash guide.
[33:33] Brilliant. I'll put that in the show notes as well. Thank you so much, Janine. Great to speak to you. Brilliant. Thank you. you if you're ready to take your business to the next level but are not quite sure what the next best step is fill out the form at lifefriendlybusiness.com forward slash next step and i'll get back to you personally with bespoke advice on how to move forward i look forward to connecting.
