Erin Thomas Wong (00:52)
Hello and welcome to The Life-Friendly Business podcast. I'm Erin Thomas Wong and today I'm joined by Ellie Bowie who is a brand designer and she's going to be sharing her unique approach to branding and also a little bit more about her business journey. So lovely to have you here today Ellie.
Ellie Bowie (01:09)
Hi Erin, thanks for having me. It's lovely to be here.
Erin Thomas Wong (01:12)
You're welcome. Would you like to explain a little bit more about what you do and your approach to branding?
Ellie Bowie (01:18)
So I'm a brand identity designer, which means I design your logo and then everything around that. So I'll pick your typefaces, your colors, icons, anything that builds the visual brand. And as part of that process, we'll also look at things like photography styles, illustration, tone of voice. We touch upon the whole sort of package, if you like, how to present your business. And my approach, I...
take quite a deep thinking approach. I think it's really important to define before you design. So I work with clients on a sort of a big phase of strategic thinking at the start. if whatever the brief is, we will start from really exploring their business, getting to know them, who they are, what they're about, what their background is.
and where their business is going. And we'll explore all the kind of marketing proposition type stuff, which with small businesses, they may or may not have done this work. But even if they have, it's an opportunity to really explore it from a brand perspective and think about who those customers are and what they need, what they're expecting from that brand, how they want it to make them feel. And whether they're quite often, if you have something existing, we'll look at
are you positioned in a way that people see you in that way at the moment? Do your current customers see that? Or is there a gap there? Is there something we need to do to push this business into its next phase? Maybe they're changing direction or maybe it's they're just aware that they're not being perceived in the way that they would like. a big part of that is me listening to the client and just questioning and it's quite a fluid process. And then I'll go off and explore and research.
and sort of really dig into everything we've talked about and try and pull all the disparate threads together. So quite often there's really what appears like small things to the client or irrelevant things, but actually they all shape how that business operates. People's values are usually quite embedded in a small business. whilst it all sounds quite dry talking about values,
it informs the decisions that people make. And that is part of who the business is and who that business is going to attract and the people they want to talk to. it's pulling all of those things in and understanding how important each element is. For some businesses, values is like right up, that's the most important thing and that's got to be communicated. But there's lots of businesses where those values are a big part of what they do, but they're not necessarily
front and centre. They're not a purpose driven organisation, but that doesn't mean they don't care about the environment or how they do business. So it's drawing out all the different facets. And I tend to start really wide and we use that process to distill right down. So before we've even started any of the design process, we've distilled down and understood really what that business is about.
and what it needs to do, how its customers need it to feel. And then we start to look at how do you communicate that visually. So it's kind of a process of distilling right down and then broadening right out as we create the visual process.
Erin Thomas Wong (04:16)
I love the fact that you said, you know, your brand is about how you make people feel because it's so easy to just assume that branding is just about having a logo and having, you know, set colours that you use. But, you know, what you're saying is that it's so much more complex than that. this, you know, your brand is really going to impact how your message is received.
Ellie Bowie (04:40)
Well, exactly. I think, I mean, I quite often recommend to people, you know, work on your messaging, working on all those other things before you invest in a brand, because until you know those things, until you really understand who your business is talking to, and what it's offering to people and what they value from it, it becomes very difficult to develop a brand that's really going to connect with your customers. That's not to say you don't need some something visual, but the
you know, the logo and all of those bigger parts, it's very easy to jump into that without understanding what you're trying to achieve. And that means from a design perspective, you can create something and it can look great, but it doesn't mean it's quite right. And, you know, there's a lot of subtleties in that of why something really connects with their customers and why it maybe just feels a bit off.
Erin Thomas Wong (05:27)
So what kind of businesses do you work with? Like what size businesses?
Ellie Bowie (05:32)
tend to work with small businesses, it tends to be one to two founders and they usually service businesses. And my preference, what I really get passionate about is working with businesses who are just hold their values dear and are just sort of gently rebellious, just trying to nudge the world into a better place. So it's not necessarily purpose driven organisations. It's businesses like mine who
you know, people who share my values, who want to do things more sustainably, who want to do things with a moral compass within it, who want to market ethically. And those, you know, all those strands, they're all important in that brand visual of communicating what you're about and whether you're about, you know, every business has to make a profit. And there's nothing wrong with that, but it's how, where you sit on that line and what you...
that also tells the story of how you do your work. I worked with a property developer a couple of years ago and his ethos was about building homes that last and that feels quite radical in the current environment and that's not to say it was a radical rebellious kind of brand but there's something different and it's different for a purpose rather than for a marketing tactic or a
reason to sell is driven by why the business is set up and a passion for doing what you do really well and I have huge respect for those kinds of businesses and I really want to support anybody that sort of is doing good things in the world really.
Erin Thomas Wong (06:55)
I love that and I love the fact that you're able to use your skills and your expertise to, like you say, get those people who want to make a positive impact out to more people in the world because, you know, it is such a busy, like, world that we're living in and so much information overwhelm. So would you say that, you know, having a really solid brand would help your business stand out from all the others?
Ellie Bowie (07:21)
Absolutely, if it's really truly connected to you. So what makes you stand out is being really true to yourself and what you stand for. When you bring in all those values, you bring in all the things that, know, all quite often talk to people who say, who maybe set up their business later in life and that wasn't their first career. And they feel like they must, they need to downplay what they've done before. But actually, you know, all that experience, all that life experience.
bring it blended into what you do or how you do it and why you do it in a certain way and that's what makes you unique like we are it's a cliche but we are all totally unique we'll all do things differently you know every designer will come up with a different concept which is why it's important to find the person aligned to you
When you sum that up in a visual identity and the way that you your messaging is put out there and the whole tone visually and written and
photographically and all those things combined, they will build something that is an existence of you. And that's what will make you stand out. And whether you're, you know, you're a quiet, nourishing soul who's doing these beautiful yoga retreats, your brand needs to feel like that. It needs to feel like, my God, this person's giving me a hug. you you'll communicate all of those things. Whereas when you're...
you you're doing something really bold and exciting and, fast paced, you need to get that across. And those two things, I think what's really key is like understanding that it doesn't, your brand doesn't have to be what else is going on in the world. You know, it's not what you see on Pinterest. There's, there's a plethora of design out there and you don't see the context. And that's not to say the design isn't good, but
when you see it out of context, you don't know what it's actually trying to achieve. So you can't evaluate it in the same way. So in order to create something unique, it's got to be true to everything you're trying to say. And when you do that, it will feel like it makes sense to people and it'll feel authentic. And again, it's, we're in a world where being real is increasingly like a scarcity, I think, not only through AI.
but people's desire to get seen, all the marketing tactics that small businesses are bombarded with, that you're kind of pulled and swayed and you're not always doing things in the way maybe is true to you. So it's sort of pulling back and being really sure of what it is you want to get out there.
Erin Thomas Wong (09:42)
I totally get the whole thing about being pulled in different directions, especially when you're comparing yourself to other businesses like in your industry or in the marketplace. But yeah, that's
being true to yourself and your own values, which I do just want to say, because I think there might be some people listening thinking, feeling quite a pressure to, I need to have this all figured out, I need to know what my core message is. And it took me years to get to the point that I am today. And I think, you know, for me, it was launching the podcast and rebranding at the same time that actually made me, I was able to really pin down what my core messages.
were. So for people listening that are thinking, oh my god, it sounds amazing and I really want a brand like that but I'm not in that place yet, what can they do to start kind of exploring what they're really about, what those values are that they want to come across in their brand?
Ellie Bowie (10:41)
I think that the main thing I'd say to people is like, is don't panic. know, whilst we all want a brand that's amazing and distinctive and driving all sales, it does take time to get to that as you say, because it's about figuring the business out. And when you start out, even in a business like mine where, you know, you don't have loads of different things that you offer, it's really hard to figure out. And I generally work with businesses.
sort of two to three years in at least who are ready to invest in branding because they've been through that process and they've experimented and they've tried different things and they've tried different tactics and they've tried different services and product and they're really starting to get to know not only what sells but what they enjoy and what matters and I you know sometimes you find businesses and they say well I do this whatever service but don't know it sells really well but I don't really enjoy it actually I want to be doing something.
slightly different. And so again, it's about getting that positioning right. So just take your time, concentrate on understanding your business. It's really about thinking about who it's for, what they need, you know, using empathy is probably the simplest tool. Also don't panic. I would say if you're creating a brand yourself, like I'm always
It always makes me a little bit sad when people say, don't judge it. I created myself. You know, we're all creative. People make incredible brands who aren't trained designers. So just be confident in what you're doing and be consistent. So if you if you're putting anything out there, decide on a colour palette. Think about think about whether that whether you want to be loud or quiet. Think about whether you want to be you want
people to feel that you're warm. mean, not many people want to feel, you think people don't want you to feel cold, but if you're going sort of for a luxury high end thing, it is slightly more aloof. It's not warm and cozy and nurturing and friendly. It's a higher status. So, and what's easier quite often to do is think about what you're not. You know, I'm definitely not this and I'm definitely not that. And then a tool I use quite often to define a brand is
you know, it's fun but not silly. It's exciting but it's not daring. It's giving yourself parameters and that can really, it's a really useful way of sort of working out where you are on a scale. I mean, you sometimes see these things online, know, kind of scale you here or here, but I find using words to, you know, keep digging into the words that you use to describe yourself and keep rewriting them and keep.
keep going until it feels right. And it does take a really long time. I mean, I've just rebranded my business and I can plot it back. It's taken me about a year, that entire process. And that's not the design process. That was really quick. That was right at the end. But the thinking process of where I want to take the business, how I'm going to do that. What does that look like? How I'm going to articulate that? How is that? It didn't radically change.
my services but it did shift them all ever so slightly and it's these really small shifts that bring you clarity that make it really simple then and I know that's it's much easier said than done.
Erin Thomas Wong (13:45)
So how have you found, you know, the fact that obviously your expertise is in brand design, that's your zone of genius, but not necessarily trained in running a business. So how have you found that combination of doing what is totally in your zone and running it as a business, self-employed?
Ellie Bowie (14:04)
It's a journey. That's always a good way to describe it, isn't it? well, it wasn't a path I thought about and deliberately chose. I started freelancing and I would freelance in-house at studios, which was an amazing couple of years because you see a totally different, know, get such quick experience of seeing an insight in how different studios run. And then I had my children and you suddenly realize you've got to work in a totally different way.
So in a sense, was kind of forced into taking on all my own client, although I did my own client work before that, it wasn't the main source of income in my business. So that was a really big shift alongside small children. It was really, it's really tough. I have no business background. I didn't, I couldn't access any support. So I just kind of went for it. And I think probably what helped is...
when you've got no idea, you just rely on your instincts. And what I've noticed, the more the more the explosion of knowledge on the internet and there's courses for it, everything, it becomes really overwhelming and you it makes you less likely to trust your instincts or things. That's not to say that I know anything. I know how to run a business brilliantly or I was doing it brilliantly. But I was doing things in a way that felt okay to me.
So it's really challenging. think one of the hardest things running a creative business is you're doing it because you love it, which means you tend to overwork and people quite happily let you overwork and people don't value, not all people, but in general, creative work isn't valued as highly as it could be. And I think it's hard for people to see the amount of work that goes into it.
which is probably one of the reasons I talk about how much thinking goes into what they do. It's not, I don't just sit down and create something out of nowhere, nobody does. Well, that's what people do. But even if you sat down and you created it, it's what's in your head for years of experience, the things you've already thought about, the work you've done previously, any other creative things, the things you've absorbed, the things you observe.
all of that feeds into what you're able to output. So it's kind of naive to assume things just come out of nowhere.
Erin Thomas Wong (16:05)
And how do you balance putting boundaries in place for yourself so that you can run a life-friendly business and trying to keep your clients happy?
Ellie Bowie (16:15)
it's definitely something I had to learn and I would say that you know the majority of the learning for me was I had to learn. Clients aren't generally that pushy. mean I think when you again when your branding is right, you're putting out there you attract the right clients and you don't have those kind of issues generally. I work within the school day which is hard but I also can see the benefits.
you know, actually, my brain is done by three o'clock because I work really intensely. And then I stop and then I go and do funnish stuff with my kids. But it forces you to work in a different way. And I don't. And I think that that's actually been a really healthy shift for me, because it also gives time for your brain to switch gear. You know, I'm walking to go up to the school and I'm thinking and I'm percolating thoughts. So
you know, you need those times. It does give you different rhythms. And I also take the summer off, which I'm absolutely committed to doing forever now. Because again, I'm definitely not, it's definitely busy in the summer. I've got two young children, but the ability to stop client work and you know, and that's, I have to plan that carefully financially, obviously, and you have to plan.
and let people know and sometimes I do miss out on projects but on the whole people are generally if they want to work with you it's only really six weeks and actually I could just be busy with other clients but I'm very upfront about when I work because I think it's really important for people to have rest and those boundaries and I think we don't talk about it enough in that the culture is so always on and I find it amazing going back to work in September is incredible like my brain is on fire I am
the ideas and the things that have just been mulling over it in the summer and I'll try and read and I'll be thinking about business and trying to do creative things but not anything specific and that's the beauty, that's what your brain needs, it needs that time to noodle, to daydream, to think about other things in order to restore you. whilst it is really tough I think it gives you really valuable lessons and it makes you...
It makes you way more productive. It really does because you have to get things done and you have to think about your priorities in a different way. If you've got a whole day from nine to five, you can't work intensely all that time. You just don't have the energy.
Erin Thomas Wong (18:24)
Yeah, I think the whole school holidays thing was a massive journey for me as well because I think, you when the kids first start school, you're really fighting against it. It's like, ā not another school holiday. And it's like really, you know, it's frustrating and irritating and limiting. But actually, when you start leaning into it...
Ellie Bowie (18:34)
Mmm.
Erin Thomas Wong (18:44)
It's like, okay, actually, and you realise that just like the kids, we get to a point where we really need to change the change of pace. And it's actually very healthy for us to have that. And, you know, absolutely for me, one of my measures of success is the fact that I don't really work during the holidays. And I was just putting in, I was blocking out my call diary today for the summer holidays. And it's actually 50, 52 days, which feels like a long time, but
Ellie Bowie (18:52)
Yeah. Yeah.
Erin Thomas Wong (19:11)
I know that what that means is unless there's any kind of emergencies, I won't be speaking to any clients on calls during that time. But obviously, I work online. So I'll be dipping in and out. I might be doing the creative things, the blue sky thing is blue sky thinking kind of moments. But having that space, like you say, allows me to, you know, rejuvenate and and be much more creative. And so I think having those school holidays throughout the year
actually if we lean into that we can really you know make it a benefit to us.
Ellie Bowie (19:44)
certainly and I think when I'm struggling if I watch my children it's a really good reminder like they know how to be creative and they know what they need they know when they need to run around and we in you know the world isn't necessarily facilitating that it's almost crushes that and the joy of running your own business is that you get you get to decide you still you know you're still within society's parameters but you get to decide
how you run that and how you use your energy. And it's made such a difference working with my own energy levels, know, when I obviously you continue with client work, but the other things I want to work on in my business, things I want to write, things I want to create, going with the flow and when I've, you know, when it comes to me, it makes life so much easier and knowing when I need to take a break and that it's not, you know, it's not working and I need to step back and I...
need a rest. It's phenomenal. I love proving it to myself every September. Like September is just amazing. And also, you know, I don't think we talk about enough about getting outside and movement and all these other things. These are the things that feed your creativity and every business needs creativity, needs creative thinking. It's a really valuable asset.
Erin Thomas Wong (20:53)
And everything you've just talked about there is for me, that's about self leadership, recognizing what you need in order to be at your best. I want to pick back up on you said, if you are getting your message across in like an aligned way, in the right way, that you'll attract the right clients. And, you know, that's really interesting, isn't it? Because I think so many of us might feel like we have to take whatever work comes our way and, you know,
have really nasty people sometimes that we're dealing with or really political situations. But how have you managed to get your message out there to attract the right clients for your brand design?
Ellie Bowie (21:32)
I mean think the cool way I've always got work is through recommendation so I think being true to yourself in the way that you work is the first step but obviously that is quite a small window of people so finding my voice has really been the finding what I really want to talk about I think I've found that hard for a long time I'm not a great fan of social media
for all the usual reasons, but really thinking about my process and sort of digging into what is this business going to be? What do I want it to be in five, 10 years time? How do I want to position myself? That really unlocked, well, if I want to be that, if I want people to come to me, these kinds of people to come to me, how am I going to get that? I've got to put that out there and it's really hard.
When you make your career a business, you don't necessarily think about coming on a podcast or writing blog articles or any number of things you have to do. But when you dig into who you are and you feel confident about that and you articulate that in your messaging and your brand, then it's becoming so much easier. Everything flows. You know what you want to talk about because you've figured out.
what those unique things are. And then you can figure out what those content pillars are, which is something you've helped me with in the visibility challenge is what are the most important things you want to talk about and what matters to other people. And you think, I think for a long time, the things that mattered to me, I didn't think were worth, that would necessarily matter to my clients. They might do, but they might not. And it's having the confidence to step into the things.
that really matter to you and realising that there's so many people out there. You will find the right people and trusting in that, which is really hard, definitely.
Erin Thomas Wong (23:12)
especially when you have an idea in your head of what you think you should be doing or how you think you should be showing up. And I know that that's a block for so many thinking, you know, have to, if I'm going to do this, you know, right, I need to show up in this way, but that doesn't feel like me. So, you know, how do we lean in and feel comfortable showing up authentically? I know it's a bit of an overused word, but.
Ellie Bowie (23:18)
Mm.
Erin Thomas Wong (23:40)
That's what we need to get comfortable with being, isn't it?
Ellie Bowie (23:43)
Totally and well to take it to a brand example quite often you have people if you websites for people and you if you ask if you've got any photography have you got some photographs of yourself and there's some people find that really difficult and they either have had a photo shoot and they don't like any of the images or they haven't and they don't want to which is absolutely fine and you can build around that but then it's
Part of that is understanding, okay, you don't want your face out there, but then what is it about you that we communicate? And you can do that. I work with a client who is a copywriter, but she's a quieter, introverted person. She didn't want to be front and centre of her brand. And it wouldn't have made sense for her to have her face because that's not the experience you're going to get when you work with her.
So understanding that, mean, understanding where your energy is and what you enjoy can then filter into everything you do and how you approach it. So if you don't want your face everywhere, you don't have to do that. you can, we talked about having some really long shots with her in the background on the beach, for example. So you can get that human touch in without having to be front and center. And by getting that wide shot, you get that sense of space and calm, which is what...
one of the key things we picked out when we talked about her brand. there's, and on a personal level, it's just digging into what do I enjoy, what really drains my energy. And sometimes that isn't what you think. Sometimes it's fear talking. I don't like social media, so I'm not gonna put myself out there on there. And whilst for me, there is an element of truth to that, there was also...
that fear of putting yourself out there, that fear of being judged, which is hard to overcome, it's surprisingly easy the more you do it and you realise that there are lots of trolls out there but they're not really looking at small business owners on the whole I think. And just being true to yourself doesn't mean that you're necessarily controversial. Having your own perspective on something isn't gonna, you know...
cause shock tactics, you don't have to use shock tactics or any of those kinds of things. It just means that there is that authenticity. You're right. It's unfortunately overused, but it's really true of how do you present yourself online in a way that is you? And I think it's listening into what feels comfortable to you. I really enjoy writing and that's where I'm leaning into creating content because that's my comfortable place of doing it. And so then it's thinking about where...
where to put that and blogging and LinkedIn are kind of key for me. And then I'm trying to, I feel like I'm trying to attract people who want to read stuff and think about stuff. So that it naturally fits with everything I'm about. If you're naturally, you love being on video, then great, go for it. And you'll attract the people that love that format. So it's just...
being aware, which is the hardest thing and taking the time. think taking the time to think about what you're doing and review, you know, reviewing and just feeling your way through things more than listening to all. Yeah, there's tons of amazing advice out there, but thinking about the advice you need, not the advice you're just being bombarded with.
Erin Thomas Wong (26:45)
And in The Visibility Commitment, we talk a lot about being intentional with what you're putting out there, don't we? Because it can feel so overwhelming, feeling like I've just got to be everywhere. I've got to be putting these posts out. But what is your intention there? So what changes have you made since doing The Visibility Commitment?
Ellie Bowie (26:50)
Mm.
I mean, it's been massive. think it's a really powerful process because it's really made me think about why I thought I was being intentional, but I was intentionally avoiding things. you know, and I think that's where you've been really, you've got a really powerful process of just gently nudging, are you sure? So I've really, I've started to write a lot more and I've...
everything I want to do is not superficial and fast-paced. So blogging, writing long form, having it my website, and then using that on places like LinkedIn. A little bit on Instagram, I'm sort of still not sure how I feel about that, but I'm just... You you have to run experiments, don't you? You have to keep going and figure it out. But I think the biggest hurdle was just...
sharing honestly, really honestly, and that's not anything about my life, that's just sharing honestly about what I do, which shouldn't be hard, but it is incredibly hard. As a female business owner, you're in a world that conditions you to be small and quiet and not put yourself out there, so it does become hard, but there is a massive community of really supportive people out there. And when you realise...
you get that support that's really uplifting and really encouraging and working with people in a group who support and encourage you just makes all the difference and I think it's just getting into a rhythm and you know it is a snowball it becomes quite exciting like you know there's days where I can't stop writing stuff and I've got lots of thoughts I want to put out there.
Erin Thomas Wong (28:30)
That's so good. And yeah, it's about, like you say, leaning into what you actually enjoy and what lights you up and moving away from the stuff that drains you because, you know, we don't need that in our lives, even if we think that that's something we should be doing, like we get to make those decisions, don't we? So how can people find out more about you and about working with you?
Ellie Bowie (28:47)
Mmm.
Best place to find me is on my website which is eleanorbowie.co.uk I'm also on LinkedIn and Instagram. You can sign up for my newsletter which is the Curiosity Club which is intentionally every sort 4-6 weeks because I don't think I have enough to say to bombard you but I want it to be quality thoughts and inspiration and you'll also get my latest blogs on that.
And you can also download, I've got a brand review guide that I've put together to help you if you've got an existing brand or something you've put together or even if you're in the early stages, it's a set of questions to help you kind of work through and think about how your brand needs to feel. it's a set of prompts just to support you in that process.
Erin Thomas Wong (29:31)
Fantastic, and I'll add that link to the show notes as well. And finally, what tip would you give to small business owners listening?
Ellie Bowie (29:35)
Thank you.
go easy on yourself. It's really hard. It's really hard. Take more rest and take, you know, take more rest, take a walk and then see what comes out in your head. Listen to the voices in your head, the good voices in your head. But think about how things are feeling and just trust in yourself way more. You you can seek advice. There's loads of amazing advice out there. But when you've thought about
where you're going and what you need. Then go and find the advice to support you in that and ignore, try and drown out the rest, like simplify things as much as you can.
Erin Thomas Wong (30:13)
What comes up for me there is creating space for yourself. We really do need that space for our brains to process everything and percolate and all those things. So slow down.
Ellie Bowie (30:16)
Yeah.
Yeah, slow down and the ideas will come. Definitely.
Erin Thomas Wong (30:28)
Yeah, that's great. Thank you so much for joining me.
Ellie Bowie (30:31)
my pleasure Erin, thanks for having me.
