Erin Thomas Wong (00:53)
Today I've got Claire Richards with me. She is an award-winning will writer with Dorset Coast Wills, but she is also the owner of a Raffia business and has been running workshops with Raffia for over 30 years. So she's got two businesses. So we're going to talk about how that really works and what that looks like on a day-to-day basis. So welcome Claire. Thank you for joining me.
Claire Richards (01:21)
Thanks very much for inviting me along, Erin.
Erin Thomas Wong (01:25)
So tell me how these two businesses came about.
Claire Richards (01:30)
gosh, well the raffia is the first. So raffia came about in the early 90s. I have a large head, know literally a large head and was at the New Forest show, couldn't find a hat that fit and I found an Australian lady who was running workshops making raffia hats, selling the hats as well but running workshops.
and my husband said you could do that. I went along to the workshop and the rest is history from there.
So that was where that started. The Dorset Coast Wills started in 2019 and needed to make a change in my life. Lots of other changes were going along. Lots of the big changes, house move, divorce. So, you know, the classic top changes. But I was working considerable hours in corporate.
and was really getting absolutely burnt out and just thought I can't see myself doing this for years and years. So I looked at the aspects of what I did. I had a pal that was already a will writer and I started to look at that in detail and realised it's got a great blend of finance, law, common sense and empathy.
and yeah just went for it from there. So having you know been working really long hours for others I then went to working really long hours for myself.
Erin Thomas Wong (03:03)
And with the will writing, obviously this is like a really serious subject. And, you know, when I first met you, what really was obvious is your great sense of humour as well and being able to talk about death in a way that didn't feel so scary. So how have you managed to kind of obviously deal with really serious situations in such an important kind of field?
Claire Richards (03:09)
Mm.
Yeah.
Erin Thomas Wong (03:30)
and still keep your sense of humour and that relatability.
Claire Richards (03:34)
Oh, thanks. That's a, it's a, it's a good question. And I have, there have been times when I've struggled with it because unfortunately I will see the funny line, even if it's not a funny situation, my head will go to it and you cannot make.
you know, a will instruction or a will meeting with clients. You can't make it a comedy event, clearly. You know, there's a considerable amount of serious conversations that need to take place. But what you do find with most people is that they are, I was going to say hungry for
the human part of it, which sounds a little bit crass, but that's what came into my head. So there you go. But people are, they want to make it human. They want to actually go, this is okay. This is all right. This is quite normal. This feels a little bit safe. And the humour makes it feel a little bit safe. So I absolutely don't go out of my way to be funny.
with my will clients but you can usually tell from the people that you're with if they will just have a chuckle with you and it's a great leveller and it just you know diffuses what people think is a stressful situation and of course it can be I'm asking tricky questions and I'm sometimes asking very dark questions too you know
What are the plans when you die? If you die first, what's going to happen here? You know, those are very common questions. So, yeah, I think I've stopped. I've stopped fighting the idea that there cannot be a little chuckle in the room. I mean, I can't stress enough. I obviously don't make it a comedy event, but I don't shy away from the idea of if there's an opportunity.
a little chuckle and it will help people to relax then it's a fantastic tool in that regard.
Erin Thomas Wong (05:37)
Yeah, and I think it's about showing the warmth, isn't it? And that's what, you know, I know that, you know, you're very well known and respected in this area. And, you know, and you can just tell when you meet you that, you know, that you've got this warmth about you and that you can, that I could just tell you anything. And of course, in what you're doing, that nurturing of relationships is so key. And I love it when I hear you speak very passionately about, about wills and why it's so important.
Claire Richards (05:41)
Yeah.
Erin Thomas Wong (06:05)
Recently we were talking about Liam Payne, sadly with his passing and the fact that he did not have a will in place. And there seems to be this kind of misconception that, that's okay because it'll all go to his son. But what were some of the problems that you were mentioning around that?
Claire Richards (06:23)
absolutely flipping madness that is. And actually, unfortunately, it's not the first high profile and incredibly high value estate where there's been no will. And it personally, and I know other will writers say the same, it's bordering on criminal activity that these people haven't been forced to have wills in place. It does beg the question of, you know, the number of experts that would have been in their lives and in their estates and in their money.
you know, what on earth were they doing? So many questions. know, there's popular press would have you believe that in, if we take Liam's example, that he wanted to leave everything to his son. So job done because the intestacy rules will mean that that's exactly what happens. So intestacy is where someone doesn't have a will.
and the rules of intestacy will therefore govern what happens and in Liam's case it will go to his son. But the difficulty is that there's so many unanswered questions. When did he want his son to have the money? Did he want him to have all of it? How does he want it to be invested? What is his son to spend it on? Is it okay for his son to have money for two weeks in Ayia Napa
Or is he looking for his son to have money for education, for training, for good deeds? Who's going to be the trustees? These are just the tip of the iceberg. And what was interesting was after I commented on this particular situation, one of the things I said was that if there are other close people in Liam's life,
that he was financially supporting. And if we just think about that for a minute, know, if you came into the sort of millions that Liam is sitting on, you know, it's highly likely that you would assist members of your family, for example. You know, are you going to be the only one in your family sitting on millions? So.
it's highly likely that there would have been close members of Liam's family that were getting some financial help from him. I mean, willingly, I don't mean in an unpleasant way. Under inheritance law, those people are able to make a claim against the estate. And it's not a question that are they being unpleasant in doing that, because, you know, I wouldn't like to say that they were, but
would he have wanted the argument that they would put forward is that he would have wanted to keep us safe. So what you're left with is this huge potential for litigation, ongoing distress, ongoing arguments, too many unanswered questions. That's what an intestacy situation gives you. It's so far from the avoidance of doubt.
that it's untrue. So that's, yeah, it actually genuinely got under my skin that day, you know, when we last met and I spoke about it, I just thought it was really, really poor. And unless you're in the industry, and I'm not in the, you know, boy band industry, strangely enough, but I'm not in with, you know, I don't run with the likes of Liam's crowd or those.
advisors that he would use but even I can see that this is absolutely a complete royal mess and it will go on and on for years behind the scenes and that's just that's just unfair on a family that's already in pain.
Erin Thomas Wong (10:05)
It is totally shocking that he didn't have that in place. you know, there's a lot of, you don't know what you don't know if you haven't been advised. In terms of, you know, our listeners who are all small business owners, you know, what I learned from you, which I hadn't heard from before, is there's things that we could be putting in place to protect our businesses or what we want to happen. So could you just give us a few pointers on what people could be thinking about with that?
Claire Richards (10:32)
Definitely for if you've got any business interests, I would definitely be wanting to know if you want a separate business executor. Several reasons for that. You might want somebody that knows your industry and is able to step in and maybe maybe complete client work for you. If that's if they're able to do that, that could be subject to some industry rules. So, for example,
Erin, you couldn't step in and run my business for me because you would need to have appropriate training. I'm also going to say that I wouldn't step in and run your business because it is very much about you and about your personality. But there were several businesses where that would be key and it would be key for my business for Dorset Coast Wills, that's for sure, because something could happen to me when I'm part the way through completing a client.
And so I would want a fellow will writer to be able to step in and do that. So business executor would be the first thing the other thing I'd say about business executor is that your loved ones might have more than enough going on. So, you know, they've just lost a key person. Maybe they've just lost their person and.
to actually need to unravel your business is probably more work than they need. So there's logistical reasons as well as business reasons there. The other thing that I would say a really key thing is understanding the assets in your business. Now increasingly, and you will understand exactly what I'm talking about here, increasingly we have a lot of businesses that have digital assets.
And these digital assets, if you're sensible and you've done it right, the copyright will belong to the business owner. And this is very something that's very key for me thinking about with with Raffia is that those assets, those digital assets can continue to generate income. You have the copyright, you own the copyright. You could gift the copyright.
So, and that's a really, really key thing to understand because it could be that somebody simply needs to do some, you know, virtual assistant type work to keep those assets live, to keep those assets available. And what you've got or you potentially could have is some beautiful passive income for, you know, your beneficiaries.
That actually got my son a little bit more interested in raffia than he previously was when I mentioned that idea to him. So that was was quite interesting. But but those are the other crux. The other thing that I would say is general, not just value of the assets within your business, but does your business actually have value? Does it have goodwill? Does it have a strong client base that somebody else, you if you think about
plumbers, electricians, know, they've got repeat customers that they go back to. Sometimes they've got, you know, 30 years worth of customers. There's tremendous value there that could be that the business gets sold, you know, as a going concern. So there's lots of questions that I would want to explore with any business owner.
with regard to their wills and what thought they've given to that. So yeah, plenty.
Erin Thomas Wong (14:00)
Thank you.
There is so much in there and I really like, you know, what you said about, because it's easy to think, my business is only a small business, like, I'm not going to be able to sell it for any money. But what you said there is, you know, your family, if they've lost you, they're dealing with that, they're dealing with their grief. And the last thing they need is to be trying to work out what to do with your business. you know, this is the opportunity for us to
make some of those decisions to make it easier on them. And obviously this is all totally bespoke to your own situation. So I really recommend people reach out and chat to you if they want to do that. So obviously, you your clients for the will writing are very kind of very specific and they come to you for something very specific. So how do you deal with having the raffia business which must be a completely different animal?
Claire Richards (14:36)
in
Yeah, it's a juggle. That's what I would say, because they are completely different. They're not in the same industry. don't, you know, I can't advertise. I could advertise them in the same place. I mean, if a local magazine that comes through the door or something like that. But there wouldn't be a natural link. You wouldn't, you know, look at two adverts and go, these are run by the same person.
So, it can be a juggle to run the two in completely different ways.
ideal clients for Dorset Coast Wills for me, because of the way that I want to manage that model, it's ideally local and over 18 years of age. So although I've got, I would say, proportionally an older client base, I've still got younger people coming to me as well. so the age range is.
literally 18 years plus there, but as I say locally, I would say more elderly. That's very much about me networking, advertising, referrals. That's very much about me putting the effort in to find the ideal customers and to keep finding the ideal clients there. Raffia can be a completely different
beast, I mean obviously it's a completely different business, but the craft industry is now a massive massive billions pounds industry. It's incredibly bigger than it was when I started in the 90s. In the 90s if you can believe this, no social media, I know everyone will believe that, but if you were alive at the time everybody, I think people were that will be listening.
So no social media, no Facebook, no internet, none of that. I would, at that time, I would attend a craft market, craft event, where I would have hats that I would be selling. And I would have a piece of paper with a list on it, and it would show where I was going to be doing the next workshop. And people would sign up. They wouldn't pay. They would sign up. They would turn up. They would pay me on the day. And I would run the workshop.
and that's how it ran, you know, in very simple times. It's a different beast now, the craft market. Any of your listeners that have even just a toe in the market will know this. It's huge, which is good and not so good at times. It's incredibly competitive. It's absolutely rammed with fantastic makers.
which is also good, but also can feel hard at times. The way that I approach that model for getting to my ideal clients is that I've got to be seen in places where they are, okay? Because it's not everybody, it's not to everybody's taste. Crafting isn't, I'm going to say is for everybody because it's super mindful. But.
It is predominantly there is a group of people that you can still identify that go, yeah, we like to make, we like to try, we like to experiment. So the model that I adopt there is to link, particularly with venues that are craft venues that run workshops. And I link with them. So we have a very mutual collaborative relationship. I link with them.
I offer to run a workshop at their venues, they promote me, I promote them, we piggyback off each other. So it's a very collaborative approach there to get to my ideal clients. And it's been successful. It's not always successful. I would say one significant difference between the wills and and the raffia for me is
that one is absolutely a luxury. I think people might think that both are a luxury and I'd really like to dispel that because I don't think wills should be considered a luxury, I think they should be considered a necessity. But attending a raffia workshop or buying a raffia course, know, digital course from me is still a luxury.
So that's very much susceptible to cost of living. know, there's many of your listeners that will be susceptible to that and Raffia absolutely is susceptible to that.
Erin Thomas Wong (19:31)
Have you ever got to the point where you thought, I've got to choose, I can't manage both of them?
Claire Richards (19:37)
Yeah, I do. I was tempted to say daily, but that would be a dramatic answer. But let's go with monthly. Let's take it as far as that. But I've got to say, because I was thinking about this before the podcast, I've got to say that it is actually becoming a much quicker answer for me. I go back to, so years ago, I was a lecturer.
at local college and uni and my preferred way of learning is a case study. Love a case study. Give the students a case study, tear it apart. What's the answer? Where's this business going? Where's the weak parts? What can we do about this? Absolutely love it and whenever I find myself thinking okay am I keeping both or is one going? You know what's happening? What's happening?
my head goes to the case study. If this was a case study and if the students were presenting it to me, would it be a clear-cut answer? Would it be this is hopeless and this is the hopeful? And that's where I go. I go actually, are the basics still good? Is there still potential? Do I still have a strong USP? Is there still
more for me to do, more areas for me to explore. For Raffia, for me, in this last year, my focus has been on digital products because I can see passive income there. And that's got to be the holy grail for anybody that's running a business. If you can get passive income. And I'm still...
I was going to say I'm not actually the only person but I'm one of about four people that is doing anything significant with raffia in Europe so you know all the while that those things are still on my side I would be daft to walk away from that as far as walking away from the wills I invest a lot of time in the will
in the will business. I do in the raffia business but it's a different investment but in the will business I have to be on top of CPD for the regulatory bodies that I'm a member of. I have to remain current and there is a point where you have to say I need to continue with this for actually partly for my brain cells but also to get the return and
For both of the businesses, and I've literally just realised this, for both of the businesses there is one common thing and that is that I leave the clients happier. I either leave them happier with a hat or a bag or something or a lampshade that they've made using Raffia or I leave them happier with a damn fine will and set of LPAs.
that are kept safe for them and are protecting their families. So there's a common thread that I hadn't thought about. And yeah, you know, I've got, I'm in both the businesses. So, you know, you wouldn't be surprised to know that a raffia workshop is gonna be quite a bit funnier and more fun than me coming to you to discuss your wills But I can be me in both places.
which is another common thread. this is marvelous. I'm going to write a list.
Erin Thomas Wong (22:59)
Well, it's a
good job we're recording this. Honestly, I love that. I can be me in both places. And this is where, you know, I think it is acknowledging that, you know, we have lots of different sides to ourselves, whether that's the hats we wear with, know, raising a family, looking after our parents, dealing with health issues, you know, having multiple businesses, and it's about finding the balance that works for us. So on that note, obviously, this is the Life Friendly Business podcast.
How do you manage the practical and the emotional energy that it takes? Because I'm sure there are some people listening thinking, I can barely run one business. How on earth is she doing two? Like, do you compartmentalize? Do you switch up your days during the week to work on either or?
Claire Richards (23:47)
Those sound fantastic ideas. I'm going to write those down now, Erin.
I do my best in that regard. What I'm still seeing, one thing that is a benefit is what I'm still seeing because I'm still mostly promoting in the UK, Raffia in the UK. There's still a seasonal element to Raffia. Once I get my digital products up and running a lot more in the next few weeks, let's go with months on there.
in the next few months, then that will strip out some of that seasonality because I will be able to promote them globally. So hopefully that will even that out a little bit. But I've got to be honest and say that there are times when I'm clutching at my schedule and I'm going, ā blocking, absolutely essential.
So if I know that I've got workshops in the diary, even if they're possible workshops, even if I don't know if they're going to run, because that's another thing, it's always a maybe with the raffia. It can be a maybe with the wills as well, but that's more under my control. So I will always block time. You know, a classic I've done for a few years. I didn't do it last year and I'm not planning to do it this year.
I did the Knitting and Stitching Festival. Your listeners may not know much about that, but it's massive. It's like 22,000 people through the door of Ally Pally over a four-day period. And you would be a fool if you didn't block out at least two days before that and at least two days after that. So diary blocking is absolutely essential to me.
Also because my will clients can actually access my calendar through Calendly so I've got to make sure that I'm on top of blocking my calendar. So that's an, you know, every time I get a new client I will actually just look at, does that still work? Is that still okay? Not just from the point of view of that actual client.
but just from the point of view of that day and maybe the next day. So that's absolutely key for me. But yeah, I don't I wouldn't for one minute because I know that it would make you pull a face if nothing else, but I wouldn't for one minute suggest that I'm really, really on top of this. It is a juggle. And I know that your your life friendly community
They're juggling all sorts. I have an older son, allegedly adult, 24. So, you know, it's debatable. Some days it's not always, I hope he doesn't listen to this.
He's a lovely young man. But my point is, is I don't have to get him to school. I don't have to worry about the school holidays. Those years are gone for me. So I do know that your life friendly community, there will be people that are juggling that juggle. I don't have that. So, so I take that effort out, that energy I don't need. And then it becomes a little bit easier to think about two businesses. What's really interesting about the raffia
is that I cannot pick it up literally for a while. I might do something with the business, but I mean in terms of making something. I don't have to actually be creative all the time with it because I've got so much data and products already made. But when I do, that's when I'll go, I've missed this. actually, this is really peaceful.
And what's even more interesting is if I do a workshop, there's some of your community might know places like West Dean near Chichester, which is a fabulous art college, you know, well, very well known, and I've run workshops there and you get some fantastically capable students. And I will come away from that with ideas that they've given me. And I come home from a workshop when you might
typically be exhausted because you've been the host energy for maybe three days. And that's a particular energy, which I know you understand, but I'm suspecting that many of your community will as well. You need to diffuse after that. But when I get home, I will diffuse by picking up my own raffia. That's very common. And I always find it quite amusing. But...
it does give me that, I just calm a bit. So in a way I've got the ability with Raffia to actually just bring my own energy level down even though I'm doing something with the business. But absolutely the juggle is real. Particularly because different cultures, different tones, different platforms, I don't do
I don't do Raffia on LinkedIn, I'm on Instagram, that's my biggest platform for Raffia and all of those need a slight shift so it's becoming much more time blocking. The other thing that I would say with regard to all that is that I have to be realistic about the immediacy so what
have I got to do to keep financially stable? And if the raffia is looking like a possible, but I've got four clients booked in in the next week that are real, then I have to put my energy to the clients that are real. But yeah, I go to bed tired some days, the same as lots of your listeners do.
And I lay there and think, I going to keep doing this? This is, this is tiring. And then I get, and then I go, yeah, I could do this.
Erin Thomas Wong (29:48)
think it is that, it's that, the possibility, I think, that comes with running your own business that keeps so many of us going. It's the, you know, the, what if this happens? What if I could do this? And I mean, it's wonderful that you've been able to basically design a life for yourself where you get to fill all these different areas of yourself, you know, the creativity, but also the...
you know strategic logistical side. So do you have any support in your business?
Claire Richards (30:24)
Well, I am a member of The Cocoon and I know that that's a fabulous place for support. And obviously you also know that I've done work with you. I dip in and out of support. So I have used support in the past. Social media is the classic one. And this may resonate with lots of your listeners. It's a constant, I want to say pressure.
But I think that I make it a pressure. I don't think it has to be a pressure. And this is what I've, you know, I've learned in particularly through the visibility with you. I think that I probably make it a pressure. Even this morning, I just thought, why are you trying to say something new?
when actually everyone else is just saying the ordinary and lots of people are just saying the ordinary over and over again. So, you know, I think, I've got to say something different because I read a post about that last week. Somebody said that already. That sort of silliness. So I sort of get a hold of that.
The difficulty that I've found with getting somebody else involved in social media is that I lose my voice a bit. And I think we've all got a specific voice. I'm not going to suggest for one minute that mine is any more special than anybody else's, but we have our own voices. And I think it takes a little time to find the person that can dovetail into that.
So that is something that I have toyed with and I'm looking at again at the moment actually. VA support, definitely. Not consistently, I don't have somebody every single month, but I've got a trusted VA that I can go have a look at this for me, compare this. Particularly, it's got to be honest, some of the big documents, some of the things like the client agreements for Dorset Coast Wills
They're, they've got to be accurate and I need to compare my terms and conditions with say industry versions to make sure that I'm not missing something. So something like that I will use a VA for. I will also use the same VA for Canva. I just don't get it. I'm all over the show. I know you've got resources. I know you've been so kind. You've sent them to me and everything.
Erin Thomas Wong (32:38)
Okay.
Claire Richards (32:46)
I just can't see it. I could make 24 hats quicker than I can probably put one little slideshow together.
Erin Thomas Wong (32:54)
But this
is where we, you know, we recognise our own zone of genius and then we bring other people in. I just want to touch back, you said about, you know, your tone of voice and how it's hard to outsource. I, you know, I really, and that's what in The Visibility Commitment, we talk about having like a content bank, a bank of evergreen content. And what we really need to be thinking about is what do we want to say in the first place? And I think that that's the kind of first step before you start.
Claire Richards (33:13)
and
Erin Thomas Wong (33:22)
trying to find someone to help you schedule posts and things like that, because we need to decide what our brand voice is. And that evolves over time. you know, for me, it's really been the last three years since I launched this podcast that I basically thought, okay, I really need to nail down what my core messages are. And then I've been able to create the content. So like you say, people are saying the same thing over and over again in slightly different ways. And that's absolutely okay.
and we need to kind of create this bank of content. And then if we take someone on to start scheduling it and maybe writing a few posts, they've got that there ready. So it's so beneficial to take that time to just kind of, and unfortunately, you know, unless you've got lots of money to invest in a copywriter, like we have to.
get these foundations in first, don't we, of what we actually, what we want to say, what's the point of us being out there in the first place?
Claire Richards (34:19)
I agree. I mean, the thing is, is I'm a I'm a big Post-It Note fan, much to my son's horror. But I'm surrounded. go, that's a good idea. I'll write that down. could do a post on that. And actually, I have created a bank, but there's something that stops me, whether it's just the logistics, whether it's the whole, you know, scheduling.
There's something there that creates that block and that's the bit that I'm looking at now. That's the bit that I'm looking at the assistance for. Would I like more help in my business? Love it. I'd love it. I'd really love to get Raffia to the point. One of the things I'm developing, I've already said I know digital courses, patterns and full courses, but also kits. I've got this
image in my head of trestle tables set up in the back of my house and a little production line going on of okay we've got to make up this kit and this kit and this kit you know like pizza boxes are stacked at the beginning of the evening I'd love that trust me there will be a reel on that if that happens I might just manufacture the reel did I say that out loud on a podcast I did
Erin Thomas Wong (35:26)
Fantastic.
Before my final question, how can people reach out to you? So do you want to give both your websites for us?
Claire Richards (35:42)
The well, are the places that I would love people to reach out to me for Raffia. I would love to follow on Insta. So that's @allthingsraffia I would love to follow there because that's my main platform for Raffia and where I'll put up about workshops and all, you know, new websites, new products and offers and subscriptions and stuff like that. definitely Instagram for Raffia.
For Dorset Coast Wills I've got a Facebook page, I've also got LinkedIn I tend to keep for Dorset Coast Wills so can you know link up with me as Claire Richards on LinkedIn
Erin Thomas Wong (36:22)
Lovely. So finally, for anyone listening out there who has two businesses or more than two businesses, who is thinking about starting a second business, what advice would you give them?
Claire Richards (36:34)
Okay, so I would say number one, do the little mini case study and ask trusted friends. I don't just mean, you know, the friend that's known you forever from school that, you know, never wants to say anything, you know, other than agree with you. I mean, find your business tribe and ask them because they will give you honest feedback if they're a good tribe. And if they're not a good business tribe, then you need to find another tribe.
So that's the first thing I would say is I would say just keep running the idea through your head. Has it actually still got legs or are you actually just in it for a vanity reason maybe? I mean that's a wild one to choose. But I've seen in the last few years, particularly in the craft industry, I've seen people close down their businesses.
And I've not been pleased with them because that would be, you know, that would be unfair. That's not what that's not what I'm saying. But there is a part of me that just says, actually, good for you if it's not working and you absolutely know you can't make it work and you gave it a good go, then walk away. know, Dolly Parton, know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away. So absolutely. The other thing.
absolutely key starting any business whether it's one two or more than that and I've mentioned it already but definitely definitely find your business tribe. I wish I'd done that sooner, I really do. You know some of my business tribe, I consider you part of my business tribe Erin and it's invaluable to have those people around you so absolutely have a look at your Cocoon offering
it's fabulous in terms of it's step on step off so there's you know there's not the the long-term commitment and I only stress that because there's a lot of other places where there is a long-term commitment so yeah you know absolutely get out there network not all networking is the same not all places are the same go with your instincts and if you don't like a network group then then find others
but absolutely find your business tribe. You need to have the people around you that understand that at 9.30am you're just literally standing on the edge of a cliff because the work is not there or times are really hard and you don't know how you're going to make ends meet. And then they also understand that 11 o'clock am on the same day
when you get in touch and you go, I've just had two clients come through.
that you need to be talking with people that understand that, that understand that that is the path. ā So yeah, definitely. Those are my two key things.
Erin Thomas Wong (39:29)
Yeah.
think having your own tribe like that and having access to be able to have those kind of honest conversations really helps build the resilience and the tenacity that you need, especially if you are having more than one business as well. I mean, we all need it for any businesses, but if you're going to be running multiple things, even more so, you need to be doubling down on supporting yourself through that.
Claire Richards (39:59)
Yeah,
agree.
Erin Thomas Wong (40:01)
Lovely, thank you so much,
great to speak to you.
Claire Richards (40:05)
Thank you very much for having me along, Erin.
